Ledger Live FAQ
Frequently asked questions when staking with Kiln through Ledger Live
More than 150k ETH have been staked to date. You can see the live analytics of the product here on Dune.
Staking through Ledger with Kiln is native staking.
This is where a user stakes (or locks) their assets to the protocol to participate in the security and governance of the blockchain. In return they receive rewards generated by the protocol. In the case of Ethereum you must stake 32 ETH (or multiples of 32) for native staking.
Unlike services like Lido, there are no receipt or liquidity tokens issued with this type of staking.
With Kiln you are launching your own validator(s) and each validator needs to be funded with 32 ETH. In a future version, we will enable ‘pooling’ to allow users to stake amounts less than 32 ETH.
- 1.32 ETH (or multiples) are deposited into a custom staking smart contract deployed by Kiln.
- 2.The deposit is forwarded into the Beacon Chain deposit contract, registering your wallet as the owner and linking it to a validator.
- 3.Kiln provisions validators automatically in their infrastructure.
- 4.Validators enter the Ethereum protocol entry queue waiting to be processed to become an active validator. The queue length varies depending on the number of other validators waiting to join. You can view your validator in the Kiln app under ‘Rewards’. NOTE: the validator will not earn any rewards until it becomes active.
- 5.Once active, validators perform participate on the network (e.g. attestations and block proposals on Beacon Chain), earning rewards that only you can claim and withdraw.
NOTE: new validators will join the ‘entry queue’ which is a function of the protocol and cannot be influenced by Kiln, Ledger or any other node operator. The queue length is primarily determined by the number of other validators trying to enter and can take multiple days / weeks / months.
You can view your validator(s) and its status in the Kiln app under ‘Rewards’. Click through to track the progress and estimated activation date / time, or access it directly at https://beaconcha.in/.
New validators will join the ‘entry queue’ which is a function of the protocol and cannot be influenced by Kiln, Ledger or any other node operator.
The queue length is primarily determined by the number of other validators trying to enter and can take multiple weeks / months.
You can track the progress and estimated activation date / time of your validator at https://beaconcha.in/.
Before staking, you can find an estimate of the queue length here. Scroll down to 'activation queue length'.
Please read this article which details the expected staking rewards on Ethereum.You can also read more on the different types of rewards that are available. In summary, there are two types of rewards: consensus layer and execution layer.
Execution layer rewards are typically earned infrequently, are more lucrative, and are available to claim immediately. Consensus layer rewards are earned frequently, are relatively small, and are available claim once they have been 'skimmed' by the protocol (~5 days).
Why is my validator earning more / less than the rest of the network or the estimated rate on the Kiln dashboard?
Please read this blog post for deeper dive on how staking rewards are earned, as well as the different types of rewards.
The estimated reward rate on the Kiln dashboard is the average annual rate we expect to see based on the backward looking performance of all Kiln validators.
Your validator needs time so it has more opportunity to participate in the validation of the network and increased reward opportunities. You will not see linear rewards earned on a daily, weekly or monthly basis.
Some months your rewards will be much higher than others, and after 1yr you should expect to see the actual rewards rate for your validator closer to the average estimate.
Total: the total amount of rewards accumulated by your validator to date (consensus layer rewards + execution layer rewards). Claimable: the rewards available to be claimed right now. NOTE: execution layer rewards are available immediately while consensus layer rewards are automatically skimmed from the validator to the Ledger / Kiln smart contract every ~5 days where you can then claim them.
Only the wallet used to issue your deposit can be used to withdraw your stake or claim rewards from the Kiln smart contract.
This is a non-custodial staking service so Kiln, nor any other party, can do that. This also means you must ensure that you do not lose control of your wallet.
In the Kiln app, go to ‘Rewards’ to view all of your validators. Select all the validators you want to claim the rewards from, select ‘withdraw available rewards’, and approve the transaction on your Ledger device. Once the transaction has been confirmed your rewards will be visible in your wallet.
HINT: To save on gas fees, consider claiming rewards infrequently and bundling all validators into a single transaction (if you have multiple validators).
Since April 12th (Shapella upgrade), the Ethereum protocol automatically "skims" the validator balances above 32 ETH on a regular basis (it take approx. 4 days for the whole network to be processed). The withdrawals are ‘skimmed’ to the address held by the Ledger Live Staking Smart Contract, where you are then eligible to claim them.
You can view and claim your rewards from the Kiln app in Ledger Live; open the app and click ‘rewards’.
The withdrawal address is an address managed by the Ledger Live staking smart contract. Only you, the wallet from where you deposited, can claim and withdraw the rewards from the smart contract. When you claim the rewards they will be withdrawn to your wallet.
You can see an estimate of the full process here by scrolling down to 'exit' and ‘withdrawal' queue length. The total time of both queues is the most accurate estimate.
- 1.In the Kiln app, go to ‘Rewards’ to view all of your validators then select all validators that you want to exit (one or more).
- 2.Select ‘request exit’, and approve the transaction on your Ledger device. Once the transaction has been confirmed your validator will enter the protocol exit queue. This may take up to 48hrs before joining the queue. See detailed breakdown of the full process in the following FAQ.
What happens when I initiate a full withdrawal (unstake) and request a validator exit? How do I get my 32 ETH back?
This is a multi-step process that is a core function of the Ethereum protocol and cannot be influenced by Kiln, Ledger or any other node operator.
There are two main steps to the process: validator exit and withdrawal of ETH. Both steps involve queues that are automatically managed by the Ethereum protocol. Validator Exit
- 1.Choose your validator in the Kiln app, and select "Request Exit". The status will change to 'Exit Requested', waiting to be processed by Kiln (up to 48hrs).
- 2.Once processed, validator will join the validator exit queue. The status will change to 'Exiting' and waits to be processed by the protocol. It will continue validating and earning rewards until fully exited. NOTE: Processing time depends on the number of other validators exiting.
- 3.Validator is processed and is removed from the active set. The status will change to 'Fully Exited'. Validator stops participating in the network and no longer receives rewards.
Validator / ETH Withdrawal
- 4.Validator then enters a queue to become 'withdrawable'
- 5.Validator is processed by the protocol and the status changes to 'withdrawable'.
- 6.The balance (32 ETH + outstanding rewards) is now eligible to be withdrawn via the automated protocol skimming process. NOTE: This could take up to ~5 days, depending on where the automated process is. It processes all validators in order, based on index number, with only a small amount processed every epoch. Find your validator here and view 'withdrawals' for an estimate. example
- 7.Once processed, the balance is sent to the Kiln/Ledger smart contract ready for you to claim.
- 8.Open the Kiln app, ‘claimable rewards’ will update to include the balance
- 9.Claim your rewards as described above in the FAQ.
NOTE: at all times throughout this process you can click through to your validator via the Kiln dashboard (or view directly at https://beaconcha.in/ and searching for your validator) to see more details on timing, queue position, and where it is in the entire process. Kiln, nor Ledger, can influence the automated protocol process or queue.
When you stake with this service, Kiln will operate validator(s) on your behalf. If these validators are incorrectly operated, it is possible for a portion of the funds you have staked to be slashed, meaning they are destroyed by the protocol.
This is very rare and has never happened to any Kiln validators. Our infrastructure is purpose-built to mitigate this risk. You should however be aware that the risk is not 0.
There are two smart contracts that introduce additional risk:
- The deposit contract which takes the incoming ETH and deposits it into the Beacon chain deposit contract
- The withdrawal contract which retrieves your rewards and sends them back to you minus a commission sent to Kiln/Ledger. Only you can trigger this withdrawal and it can only go to your 'depositor' address.
Both contracts were developed by Kiln and have been audited by Halborn, Spearbit and Ledger Donjon twice. Please visit https://security.kiln.fi to request the full audit report.
Kiln generates and stores the validator keys used to operate your validator. These keys are safely stored according to practices that have received SOC2 certification.
Your withdrawal keys, which control the address and is eligible to receive the original stake and any accrued rewards upon a withdrawal, are controlled on your Ledger device.
In the unlikely event that Kiln becomes insolvent, we have a business continuity and disaster recovery plan which we were certified for as part of our successful SOC 2 Type 1 (in 2022) and SOC 2 type 2 (in 2023) audits.
We also have an Ethereum-specific policy involving exiting all validators or transferring validation keys in case Kiln can no longer operate the service.
If your issue persists, please contact our support team, and we will get back to you as soon as possible.